MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
To help us understand the impact of Driscoll's resignation and what it might tell us about the current state of the armed forces, we have former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on the line. He served as defense secretary for the Obama administration. Secretary Panetta, welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
LEON PANETTA: Good to be with you.
KELLY: What was your first thought when you heard about Driscoll's departure?
PANETTA: Well, you know, when the country is at war, it's not good to have turmoil in military ranks. And what we've had is a great deal of turmoil with regards to the command structure. And ultimately, that is not - that's not a good sign for the kind of discipline that you need and command structure that you have to have, particularly in a war situation. So it's of great concern that something like this happen.
KELLY: Help us understand the impact of this particular job. Army secretary is a civilian post, not in the chain of command. How big a deal is it for that chair to be empty? How disruptive is it if an Army secretary quits?
PANETTA: Well, I can tell you, as a former secretary of defense that it was very important to have highly qualified people in key positions in the military. And although a secretary is a civilian job, it is very important to the ability of that particular unit within the military to be able to function. And the secretary can also bring not only experience, but usually some political know-how as to how to deal with the Congress, how to deal with the committees that are involved on budget consideration. So having a good secretary can really complement having a strong military leader for the Army or for any branch.
KELLY: And then what about just the message it sends internally to Army troops in terms of recruitment, in terms of retention?
PANETTA: Well, that's a particular concern to me as a past secretary because most secretaries of the Defense Department are individuals that allow the military process to be able to function. And in the military, what is - what determines whether or not somebody is advanced is not loyalty. It's not issues related to politics. It really is their battle experience, their ability to know their branch of the military, the experience they've had, how they perform. And that's how you advance in the military. It's because you're a good soldier. Because you're a good soldier, that is the primary consideration. And so respect for that process, I believe, is very important. And I get the impression that this secretary somehow weighs loyalty as more important than the process the military uses to pick strong, experienced military leaders.
KELLY: What gives you that impression?
PANETTA: Because we have had too much turnover at the Pentagon. And turmoil is not good, particularly during a period of war, to have constant changes of individuals who are experienced, who are - who've had battle experience suddenly (inaudible) this constant turnover, creates instability, very frankly, in the command structure, and it creates a lot of turmoil when you have to focus more importantly on how the war is being handled.
KELLY: I mean, I'm just curious, Mr. Secretary, you have a lot of friends in the military and in Washington. What are you hearing from them about this?
PANETTA: There's a great deal of concern with everybody I've talked to - former military, former civilians at the Pentagon. Everyone looks at the Pentagon as being in constant turmoil. When good people are losing their jobs, when experienced leaders are losing their jobs for no reason, really - no reason has been given as to why these good people are losing their position - that kind of turmoil creates instability and impacts on morale within the military itself. That's just not good. That's not smart. It undermines the kind of strong stability you need, particularly during war.
KELLY: Well, I was just about to say, I'll point out the obvious, which is that all of this turnover is unfolding as the U.S. is in a war with - that it started with Iran. I'm curious your thoughts on the impact of this type of turnover on actual military operations unfolding overseas.
PANETTA: Well, it's not a mystery to say that this war is not going well. And we're in a stalemate with regards to this war.
KELLY: Do you agree with Dan Driscoll, by the way? My colleague Tom Bowman just quoted him as saying the U.S. is losing the Iran War.
PANETTA: I think that if one kind of stands back and tries to see how this war ends, it's not a good ending to the war. And I think it'll go down as another Iraq, another Afghanistan. It'll join failed Middle East wars.
KELLY: That is former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta. We thank you for your time speaking with us today.
PANETTA: Good to be with you.
(SOUNDBITE OF BUN B, ET AL. SONG, "STILL TRILL") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
